Porcarotta feel, totally. Marocaro too.
Printable View
Porcarotta feel, totally. Marocaro too.
Agree a relaxed feel suits Steely Dan's music best, but playing behind the beat and slowing down are two totally different things. Not to say that slowing down is necessarily bad...just that it's not the same as playing behind the beat.
After listening to these tunes, I thought I should check the batteries in my Walkman....but then I realized....my PC is plugged into the wall!! [img]eek.gif[/img]
I can't think of any other recorded example (Steely or otherwise) of where the tempo changed so much, except maybe for "I Got the News" (off the "Aja" album). Ed Greene on drums. It definitely speeds up towards the end, but not in a bad way...kind of fits the song, IMO.
At the risk of belaboring the point, I think the "dragging" on these tunes goes to the point of taking something away from them.
I know Keith has some high-profile bullets on his resume and lots of good press lately, but I wouldn't even think of putting him in the same class as Gadd, Porcaro, and several others.
No40...nice call! Jordan would be great with Steely. He was great with James Taylor a few years ago. He played the hell out of that 16th-note HH groove on "Your Smiling Face" on the DVD.
EDIT: I've only heard Erskoman with Steely on the two tracks on "Alive in America." Based on that alone, I have to include him with a small group of drummers that can do that drum chair justice. I really dig the playing on "Green Earrings" (especially the spicy snare work.) Great job on "Third World Man" too (especially at that slower-than-album tempo), but I think I'll always be partial to the studio version. [img]redface.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 20, 2004 08:47 PM: Message edited by: mja61 ]</font>
I thought Dennis was great on the "Alive in America" disc. He played the SHIT out of "Josie" and "Bodhisattva" (esp. the latter!!) He wasn't bad on "Aja" either.
I will say that the sound of those 12" high hats and table-tight snare didn't fit the music, IMO.
Bumping to keep on the page n hopes that Klemme will give us some more tracks.
I liked both DC & PE on there respective trax on SD-LIA.
I just think Den 'breathed some new life' into those older classics. Yeah, some might say he doesnt have as 'laid back' a feel as some of the others, but I thought it grooved just fine...& why would you want a live recordg done YEARS later aft the origs sounding exactly like the origs, anyway? Miles would shake his index finger at you [img]wink.gif[/img] . [They would have to hire JP, Gadd, Purd, or Kelt for that anyway.] [img]wink.gif[/img]
I understand that most if not all of us are used to practically every nuance & feel of these classics, but let's not 'begrudge' DC...he is an all time great groover in my book...AWA can deal you a lethal blow w chops. Aft all, it's "DC w SD," NOT the orig cat who played on the origs [how many?!] yrs ago, when the relaxed feel kind of 'fit the times'...whatever that means to ya's... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
I'm sure Becker & Fagen simply hired DC because they knew he could handle the gig, & because they like his groove & musicality, & for whatever individuality he could bring to the table.
I like & respect RL a LOT as a drummer in certain ways [great solid-as-a-rock reconstructed pop w DM-like timing], but to me, on this type of gig he is way more 'grooveless' than even what you could say about DC. [img]eek.gif[/img] JMHO. He IS a good drumr, tho. Hey, he gets hired by the best. They ALL do.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 21, 2004 03:20 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Well said, Fuse.
Good point about not begrudging someone for not making the live rendition sound exactly like the record. I don't know that a "slavish recreation" (paraphrasing Neil Peart) is always (or ever) desirable.
My point was that one thing that separates the "good-enough" drummers from the "irreplacable" drummers in certain situations is the ability to identify those grooves/sections/fills that need to be preserved, and play in the spirit of the original; not necessarily play the same thing note for note.
It takes good ears, discipline, humility, and taste to identify which parts need to be preserved, and even then, it's a subjective matter to some extent.
A good example is a tune like "Rosanna." Who could possibly play it better than Jeff? How awful would that tune sound played with straight-eights, or without the trademark "fill-in" ghost notes?
I don't have a problem listening to someone play in the same spirit, but not necessarily a note-for-note recreation of the original. I enjoy Simon's playing on that tune on the "Livefields" disc. I wouldn't confuse it with the original, but he very respectfully played in the spirit of Jeff's original part while still being Simon.
Sorry for the delay guys, they will be uploaded right after i've had my Durum with Kebab! [img]smile.gif[/img]
I hear ya, mja, & i also agree w what you said, there. That's important. [img]cool.gif[/img]
I also hear what you said in that other post:<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">WORD.Quote:
Again, I don't want to be offensive, but there's one thing that troubles me about some of the posts on this board over the years.
I see SO many posts here that rip Steve Smith, Steve Gadd, Anton Fig, Manu Katche, Simon Phillips, Alex Van Halen, Gregg Bissonette, Dennis Chambers and many other AWESOME drummers to shreds, and at the same time talk about Abe Jr., J.R., Keith Carlock, etc. like they're the second coming of Jeff Porcaro.
Tony and Vinnie could blushda their way through an entire song, and most would think it's the most brilliant thing they ever heard. But if Steve Smith or Gregg B. do it once, everyone wants them arrested for aggravated blushda.
Sorry, but I just don't get it.
Okay...rant off.
I think they ALL bring something good that you can take away with in their own way. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 21, 2004 04:45 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
Ok here they are!
Don't take me alive
Caves of Altamira
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 21, 2004 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Klemme ]</font>
Thanks Klemme.
Keith has some Purdie in him...sounds GREAT on Caves...well, for the people who complained about tempo, Tkae me Alive is a bit faster than the record. He is solid.
Boy, to play these songs live with Fagen and Becker...words probably can't describe it.
I've played along to these songs probably a thousand times each, my hearing can attest to it.
Thank you Klemme.